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Rape and Child support
__LEVI__
#1 Posted : Saturday, July 13, 2013 9:19:23 PM(UTC)


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If a child is conceived during a rape should the woman be allowed to collect child support?

Facts, opinions, theories?


It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.

Masturbation is a form of stress relief. So go fuck yourself and calm down.
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Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
_Allison
#2 Posted : Saturday, July 13, 2013 9:25:38 PM(UTC)


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Yes? If a one night stand produces an accidental pregnancy no one would question it.

I'm thinking she probably wouldn't want to though. Certainly if the rape is proven, and the father is proven....wouldn't he be in prison? Can't squeeze water from a rock.
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always_val on 7/13/2013(UTC), Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
Black_Witch_Rose
#3 Posted : Saturday, July 13, 2013 11:44:21 PM(UTC)


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DNA test please....first and foremost! Proof! that said child is the child of possible rapist....which means if and only if they are caught and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt they are such....and remember the court system is not interested in actual innocence...there is no money in it for them...so DNA test moi important as well....
IN TEXAS that means a 4 year limitation to prove you are or are not the 'FATHER' after that does not matter...you are then determined the father period and will pay child support or will go through the possibilities below for non-payment!

The consequences of non support....'it will be classed as a felony, lose of driving license, lose of practically any license not just professional' plus of course 'interest applied to any and all back payments' and never to forget feds money for each case to child support enforcement....(yes it is business pure and simple as well) not to mention you will probably have a very difficult time getting employment with a 'felony' charge which of course will compound the problem which is probably you can't get a job that will help you with a real living as well as help pay for the child's needs in life....in today's economy/the great recession....and so you will find yourself....basically a criminal without exception on top of being a criminal/rapist type....which means you should find a stun gun to apply to your mind, which will make you think deeply of this all and decide to say....'screw that!' I choose not to do such a thing...not worth it....


A rose is a rose, until it is not


Ceka_Cianci
#4 Posted : Saturday, July 13, 2013 11:45:56 PM(UTC)


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depending on the state..child support is usually not a choice of the parent to deny..

my father told the judge that he didn't want child support or anything from my first mother..
the judge had told him that..
this money was not his money but money for the children..that there is a minimum and if there were reasons for more that he could put those up to request more..
but that there would be child support unless custody was given away in an agreement from the mother..

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Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
Black_Witch_Rose
#5 Posted : Saturday, July 13, 2013 11:55:16 PM(UTC)


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oh and not to forget those who choose to marry to a person who already has a child! IN Texas right now there is a certain client who is being charged child support to a child who is not his, and this child was already 3 years old and obviously not his own 'DNA' child.

There is yet another client who has never asked nor received food assistance or tanf and has had their child support withheld in order to pay the aforementioned which never ever happened!

Beware of anyone from a government system who wants to help you....ask the real reason...why would they? It is only people inside themselves which may or can change anything....not yet another law which almost always will be in some way...'erroded in it's mission' or 'see's the big picture of dollars and business'....

With that said...I firmly believe both parents should always support their children to the very best of their abilities and others who see this and with nothing to gain will help them accomplish this for the sake of a 'future'....not just a 'past'....

I will never believe in any goverment because of an ancestors past which told me everything I will ever need to know about goverment entities....never will I trust them....to keep their word or the mission of what they say but lie...almost always


A rose is a rose, until it is not


__LEVI__
#6 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:16:48 AM(UTC)


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Three ladies and three yes! Lets see what the men have to report.


It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.

Masturbation is a form of stress relief. So go fuck yourself and calm down.
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Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
_Ga_Peach_
#7 Posted : Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:40:02 AM(UTC)


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Sorry, not a guy - just another female POV...

If and only if the child support was paid to the courts and then forwarded to the mother, and only if no visitation rights were awarded to the rapist, would I agree.

I can't imagine any woman strong enough to raise the child that results from rape EVER wanting that rapist anywhere near that child, or herself, for that matter. The day I'd pack a bag for my child to go spend a weekend with my rapist would be the day hell froze over.


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. --Oscar Wilde

Just because you wear a Persecution Hairshirt and carry a bucketful of bat-shit crazy does not give you the right to be offended on someone else's behalf.
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Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
__LEVI__
#8 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 8:36:51 AM(UTC)


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Been some interesting comments and it seems that a certain mindset has revealed itself.


It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.

Masturbation is a form of stress relief. So go fuck yourself and calm down.
1 user thanked __LEVI__ for this useful post.
Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
Ceka_Cianci
#9 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 9:11:13 AM(UTC)


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oh no i wasn't saying yes i would want anything hehehe
i was just saying what the judge told my father when he got custody of us from my mother..
he didn't want anything from her ..but the judge said it wasn't his choice to not take the money..

myself..
ya there is no way i would want any memory of that person coming in in any form..
the child i would raise and would love..
but the father if he ever showed his face would be in big time hurt and pain when my husband breaks him in half after my dogs eat him.
heck if someone came by looking for him ..we would just say..who?

lol
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Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
Anna7
#10 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 10:34:31 AM(UTC)


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Quote:
If a child is conceived during a rape should the women be allowed to collect child support?


be allowed ?

so after being sexually assaulted ,some one will decide if she will be ALLOWED ?

Will she be ALLOWED to decide for herself whether she aborts the baby or will she be forced to have it

Well if she keeps it and the "Father" is financially able then yes ,that is of course if she wants the "Father" any where near her

Frankly i find the question a bit Misogynistic
Photobucket can go and get F#$%#D i dont deal with extortionists
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Enigmaofhate on 7/15/2013(UTC), Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
Anna7
#11 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 10:36:33 AM(UTC)


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and just to be knit picky

Rape and Child support started in Miscellaneous section (or moved )

Rolleyes
Photobucket can go and get F#$%#D i dont deal with extortionists
Pig_UB
#12 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 10:41:29 AM(UTC)


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_Allison;1193407 wrote:
Yes? If a one night stand produces an accidental pregnancy no one would question it.

I'm thinking she probably wouldn't want to though. Certainly if the rape is proven, and the father is proven....wouldn't he be in prison? Can't squeeze water from a rock.



Is rape a life time sentence? Wouldn't the support just pile up until he got out and then have to start working on back payments?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_would_the_average_jail_time_for_rape_be
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Pig_UB
#13 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 10:43:58 AM(UTC)


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Anna7;1193898 wrote:
and just to be knit picky

Rape and Child support started in Miscellaneous section (or moved )

Rolleyes



Just curious what section you would prefer...GD? Sex & Dating?
~ Love and Kisses to All ~ * ~ Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely ~

I Just Took the L Train Back into Oblivion~ | I'm Todd, You're Todd, We're All Todd~



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__LEVI__
#14 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 10:45:46 AM(UTC)


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Anna7;1193896 wrote:
Quote:
If a child is conceived during a rape should the woman be allowed to collect child support?


be allowed ?

so after being sexually assaulted ,some one will decide if she will be ALLOWED ?

Will she be ALLOWED to decide for herself whether she aborts the baby or will she be forced to have it

Well if she keeps it and the "Father" is financially able then yes ,that is of course if she wants the "Father" any where near her

Frankly i find the question a bit Misogynistic



To clarify I believe in most states in the US child support doesn't guarantee visitation rights.

Child was conceived and the woman of her own free will decided to keep said child for what ever her reasons may be.

You find the question a bit misogynistic because not of the question, but of your views on life.

And yes this was started in miscellaneous.

It does seem a trend has started on the thread can/should one conclude that this trend transcends into the real world?



It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.

Masturbation is a form of stress relief. So go fuck yourself and calm down.
1 user thanked __LEVI__ for this useful post.
Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
Pig_UB
#15 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 10:47:36 AM(UTC)


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Yeah I am not getting the child support payments with a guaranteed right to have visitation with the underage child~
~ Love and Kisses to All ~ * ~ Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely ~

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Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
_Ga_Peach_
#16 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 5:23:10 PM(UTC)


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From what I have been looking into, laws vary from state to state, but the general policy seems to be that court-ordered child support and visitation are two separate things and must be filed separately.

Assuming a DNA test has been done, child support could be ordered and visitation not given. However, with the DNA proof of parentage, the rapist could legally petition the courts for visitation. The matter would then be left to the courts to decide, using the "child's best interest" basis.

So, the woman potentially opens up another can of worms, if she petitions for child support. She could potentially be opening the door for her rapist to take her back to court, in a visitation hearing. God forbid, she get a nutcase judge who actually grants the petition.

I just don't know of many women who would put themselves through that for a few dollars they may or may not get.


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. --Oscar Wilde

Just because you wear a Persecution Hairshirt and carry a bucketful of bat-shit crazy does not give you the right to be offended on someone else's behalf.
1 user thanked _Ga_Peach_ for this useful post.
Black_Witch_Rose on 7/17/2013(UTC)
_Ga_Peach_
#17 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 5:33:28 PM(UTC)


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Now, to take another view...

If a minor male has been molested and raped by a woman, and she gets pregnant, should the boy be ordered to pay child support?

Before you say it would never happen, go Google Jeremy Steen.


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. --Oscar Wilde

Just because you wear a Persecution Hairshirt and carry a bucketful of bat-shit crazy does not give you the right to be offended on someone else's behalf.
1 user thanked _Ga_Peach_ for this useful post.
Black_Witch_Rose on 7/18/2013(UTC)
_Allison
#18 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 5:45:19 PM(UTC)


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_Ga_Peach_;1194094 wrote:
Now, to take another view...

If a minor male has been molested and raped by a woman, and she gets pregnant, should the boy be ordered to pay child support?

Before you say it would never happen, go Google Jeremy Steen.



You read my mind, I was going to post about this issue too. The law in the states where this is done claims that the minor was a willing participant however legally the entire definition of statutory rape is that they were not legally able to offer consent.



Your other post that ended with this:

Quote:
I just don't know of many women who would put themselves through that for a few dollars they may or may not get.


is the point I wanted to make in my response, but kept my words brief.

One thing to consider is that child support is often not a one time automatic thing where the judge assigns it and that's the end of it. I've known people that were receiving child support where the father would work for a while then quit his job and disappear for a bit. The courts would have to track him down, and every time it took months to figure it all out. Each time the courts (or sometimes the mother) found him, it meant more court appearances. He usually skipped them, she would win, then there would be a few checks until the cycle repeated itself.

Even if the mother wanted to collect child support from her rapist, at a certain point if something like that is going on it's not worth it anymore. Keep going back to court and dealing with the person and fighting with it? Noooooo thank you.
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Black_Witch_Rose on 7/18/2013(UTC)
__LEVI__
#19 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 7:38:25 PM(UTC)


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Now you are thinking.

1 in 10 reported rapes in the US is a women raping a man. Men can be raped by women.


_Ga_Peach_;1194094 wrote:
Now, to take another view...

If a minor male has been molested and raped by a woman, and she gets pregnant, should the boy be ordered to pay child support?

Before you say it would never happen, go Google Jeremy Steen.


Quote:
You read my mind, I was going to post about this issue too. The law in the states where this is done claims that the minor was a willing participant however legally the entire definition of statutory rape is that they were not legally able to offer consent.


Most states do not refer specifically to statutory rape; instead they use designations such as sexual assault and sexual abuse to identify prohibited activity.

Idaho is the only state that defines "statutory rape" with the word female. All other state are gender neutral.

Now to answer the original question.

Quote:
If a child is conceived during a rape should the woman be allowed to collect child support?


It depends on who was the rapist:

If the man was raped the women shouldn't be allowed to collect child support from the man.

Now you will say that would never happen, but it more than likely happens more than what is reported. A man gets drunk and passes out, he doesn't have to be awake or conscious for his dick to work. Think about how many hard rock musicians might be raped by a groupie once they pass out.

What the surprising trend and I guess it really isn't with the mindset of society is that everybody was assuming the victim was the woman and not if it could be the man.


It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.

Masturbation is a form of stress relief. So go fuck yourself and calm down.
1 user thanked __LEVI__ for this useful post.
Black_Witch_Rose on 7/18/2013(UTC)
_Allison
#20 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 8:51:24 PM(UTC)


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Very sneaky Levi. You trickster.

Hm now if the boy is actually a willing participant, even though the law says that he is not able to grant consent, should he pay? Seems unfair if the crime was that the other person was charged with relies on the person not being able to give consent. So as far as sexual assault is concerned there was no consent, but as far as child support is concerned there was.

Have to consider that child support isn't meant as a punishment but for the child right? So that the child is provided for. The child had no say in their mother's decision on who to sleep with and any child under a legal relationship would be receive the benefit of that support.

Can the court have two views of consent like that? It seems like on a case by case basis it could be determined if the boy willingly participated he should be responsible for his child no matter how old he is. If he is 15 and she is 15 then he would be.

I don't know I'm confused lol. That is a tough decision to make.


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Black_Witch_Rose on 7/18/2013(UTC)
__LEVI__
#21 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 9:10:55 PM(UTC)


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I didn't consent to sex, but I consented to child support. I don't think a judge would see it that way.

I would think that the view is or would be if he cannot legally give his consent then he is not a willing participant.


It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.

Masturbation is a form of stress relief. So go fuck yourself and calm down.
1 user thanked __LEVI__ for this useful post.
Black_Witch_Rose on 7/18/2013(UTC)
Anna7
#22 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2013 12:49:02 AM(UTC)


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Pig_UB;1193904 wrote:
Anna7;1193898 wrote:
and just to be knit picky

Rape and Child support started in Miscellaneous section (or moved )

Rolleyes



Just curious what section you would prefer...GD? Sex & Dating?


dont think there is a correct section to be honest but since i consider this a feminist issue (sorry guys) so politics
Photobucket can go and get F#$%#D i dont deal with extortionists
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Black_Witch_Rose on 7/18/2013(UTC)
Anna7
#23 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2013 12:56:26 AM(UTC)


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__LEVI__;1193905 wrote:
Anna7;1193896 wrote:
Quote:
If a child is conceived during a rape should the woman be allowed to collect child support?


be allowed ?

so after being sexually assaulted ,some one will decide if she will be ALLOWED ?

Will she be ALLOWED to decide for herself whether she aborts the baby or will she be forced to have it

Well if she keeps it and the "Father" is financially able then yes ,that is of course if she wants the "Father" any where near her

Frankly i find the question a bit Misogynistic



To clarify I believe in most states in the US child support doesn't guarantee visitation rights.

Child was conceived and the woman of her own free will decided to keep said child for what ever her reasons may be.

You find the question a bit misogynistic because not of the question, but of your views on life.

And yes this was started in miscellaneous.

It does seem a trend has started on the thread can/should one conclude that this trend transcends into the real world?


i find it misogynistic because of the word allowed in reference to a rape victim,first they forced then they allowed.

That aside in cases of aggravated sexual assault with violence ,i find it difficult to believe she would want any thing to do with the guy or keep the baby
(right to lifers dont waste your time)

But no doubt some would go figure

Photobucket can go and get F#$%#D i dont deal with extortionists
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Black_Witch_Rose on 7/18/2013(UTC)
_Ga_Peach_
#24 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2013 4:15:46 AM(UTC)


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Anna7;1194213 wrote:
__LEVI__;1193905 wrote:
Anna7;1193896 wrote:
Quote:
If a child is conceived during a rape should the woman be allowed to collect child support?


be allowed ?

so after being sexually assaulted ,some one will decide if she will be ALLOWED ?

Will she be ALLOWED to decide for herself whether she aborts the baby or will she be forced to have it

Well if she keeps it and the "Father" is financially able then yes ,that is of course if she wants the "Father" any where near her

Frankly i find the question a bit Misogynistic



To clarify I believe in most states in the US child support doesn't guarantee visitation rights.

Child was conceived and the woman of her own free will decided to keep said child for what ever her reasons may be.

You find the question a bit misogynistic because not of the question, but of your views on life.

And yes this was started in miscellaneous.

It does seem a trend has started on the thread can/should one conclude that this trend transcends into the real world?


i find it misogynistic because of the word allowed in reference to a rape victim,first they forced then they allowed.

That aside in cases of aggravated sexual assault with violence ,i find it difficult to believe she would want any thing to do with the guy or keep the baby
(right to lifers dont waste your time)

But no doubt some would go figure



Actually, with the idea of the female being the rapist that Levi had in mind when he asked the question, allowed is the perfect word to use.
Should a rapist be allowed to collect child support for the child conceived?

I think I would have to fall on the side of sometimes.
If the rape was actually a consensual sexual act where one or both participants were not legally of the age of consent, then yes, child support should be paid. That's called taking responsibility for your actions.
If it was a case of non-consensual sex, where the female is the perpetrator, then no. Let the financial burden of child rearing be hers and hers alone. Asking a male survivor to pay for the result of an unwanted act for 18+ years, in my opinion, would be the same as asking a female survivor to pay her rapist a monthly fee for 18+ years.


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. --Oscar Wilde

Just because you wear a Persecution Hairshirt and carry a bucketful of bat-shit crazy does not give you the right to be offended on someone else's behalf.
1 user thanked _Ga_Peach_ for this useful post.
Black_Witch_Rose on 7/18/2013(UTC)
_Ga_Peach_
#25 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2013 4:31:09 AM(UTC)


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__LEVI__;1194156 wrote:
Now you are thinking.

1 in 10 reported rapes in the US is a women raping a man. Men can be raped by women.


_Ga_Peach_;1194094 wrote:
Now, to take another view...

If a minor male has been molested and raped by a woman, and she gets pregnant, should the boy be ordered to pay child support?

Before you say it would never happen, go Google Jeremy Steen.


Quote:
You read my mind, I was going to post about this issue too. The law in the states where this is done claims that the minor was a willing participant however legally the entire definition of statutory rape is that they were not legally able to offer consent.


Most states do not refer specifically to statutory rape; instead they use designations such as sexual assault and sexual abuse to identify prohibited activity.

Idaho is the only state that defines "statutory rape" with the word female. All other state are gender neutral.

Now to answer the original question.

Quote:
If a child is conceived during a rape should the woman be allowed to collect child support?


It depends on who was the rapist:

If the man was raped the women shouldn't be allowed to collect child support from the man.

Now you will say that would never happen, but it more than likely happens more than what is reported. A man gets drunk and passes out, he doesn't have to be awake or conscious for his dick to work. Think about how many hard rock musicians might be raped by a groupie once they pass out.

What the surprising trend and I guess it really isn't with the mindset of society is that everybody was assuming the victim was the woman and not if it could be the man.


Part of that may be because most of your responses have been from women. Most women are taught from an early age that rape is a very real risk. We are taught what to do to protect ourselves, what to do if we are raped, etc.
How many guys were told beginning at puberty (if not earlier) to always be aware of your surroundings, to stay in groups, to keep your car doors locked, where and where not to park your car, how to use your keys as a weapon. How many were told to have a friend call you when you went on a date and to have a code word to give them if you felt in danger? How many were told not to drink at a party - with the main reason being that you might have one too many and end up raped?

Another part of that...take a look around, at TV, movies, etc. Who are the rape victims? We are constantly bombarded with images of women as victims of men. It's not always that way. I'd wager that the numbers for men are a lot higher than any of us would think...mostly because men are conditioned to always be the protectors, never the victims. I don't think many men would be willing to look "weak" in the sight of others by admitting a woman violated them.


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. --Oscar Wilde

Just because you wear a Persecution Hairshirt and carry a bucketful of bat-shit crazy does not give you the right to be offended on someone else's behalf.
1 user thanked _Ga_Peach_ for this useful post.
Black_Witch_Rose on 7/18/2013(UTC)
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